A. IS HARUUN KAL A DARK SIDE NEXUS?

Yes.

quote:
Originally posted by The Ellimist

While Mace notes that the “literal translation” is jungle world, that doesn’t literally mean that the jungle is amped. Literal translations in every language tend to be rather arbitrary, e.g. “kung fu”’s literal translation is work ethic. It certainly doesn’t suggest that the jungle is some sort of potent dark side nexus (not that that would matter much against Windu’s vaapad).

Haruun Kal is likely one of the most potent nexus’ in history. The jungles are completely saturated in dark side energies. 

> Mace Windu dares not meditate on Haruun Kal because he might be consumed by its darkness [5].
> Mace Windu hesitates to use Vaapad because falling to the dark side on Haruun Kal is far easier than elsewhere [6].
> Mace Windu senses little light side energy across Haruun Kal besides the innate power inside of him [7].
> “The darkness in/of the jungle” is perhaps the most commonly used phrase of the book after “From the private journals of Mace Windu.”

Does that sound like an imaginary nexus to you? And as to your point that Vaapad counteracts the effects of dark side nexus’ . . . why? 

quote:
Source: The Official Star Wars Fact File 112 (2004)



(Image link for reference: https://i.imgur.com/VEtyQBi.png)

The above description is how the technique worked in 21 BBY. Mace Windu has to initially gather and focus an incredible amount of Force energy, which would be radically difficult to do in a world saturated in the dark side. Next, he has to maintain this ball of energy inside himself through sheer willpower and mastery, yet such brought the likes of Sora Bulq over the dark side. On a world like Haruun Kal, not falling to the dark side would demand immense mental focus while simultaneously fighting Kar Vastor. Note that Mace Windu advances his technique based on his experiences on Haruun Kal, so his performance against the Emperor is not necessarily indicative of how it functioned against Kar Vastor, especially because the Revenge of the Sith novelization notes that Mace Windu completely submerged himself in Vaapad against him. Overall, it is obvious that Mace Windu is drastically weakened on Haruun Kal.

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B. IS KAR VASTOR THE EMBODIMENT OF THE JUNGLE?

Yes.

quote:
Originally posted by The Ellimist

AHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAH!

Pelekoton is just the native word for “the Force”:

AHAHAAHAHAAHAH!!!!


Uh, duh? Did you think the power of pelekotan was separate from the Force? All variants of magics and energies are of the Force. That does not mean the Emperor’s mastery of spirit ichor surpasses Talzin’s, nor is Yoda’s affinity with the White Current as deep as the Fallanassi. The fact pelekotan’s power is that of the all-encompassing Force is a given, so your ”AHAHAHA!”s is the equivalent to mocking me after realizing Darth Vader has an indestructible laser sword that he can stab people with. However, in a way not dissimilar to the Nightsisters and Dathomir, the Korunnai have adapted and evolved across four thousand years stranded on Haruun Kal to specifically the energies around them - the power of the jungle/”the jungle mind”/”pelekotan”. This concept of Force users being in tune with their homeworld or specific and unique aspects of the Force is not new, so I do not know why you have such difficulty grasping it. The fact is not all Force users use “the Force” as directly and “normally” as the Jedi and Sith, and Kar Vastor is as unique as get. Now, please, stop trying to go “/thread” off one quote you found after asking a question on answers.com.

EXAMPLE ONE:

quote:
Source: Star Wars: Shatterpoint (2003)

"That's an interesting way of using-" He dredged from the depths of thirty-five-year-old memory the Koruun word for the Force. Pelekotan: roughly, "world-power."

"You don't use pelekotan," Chalk said. "'Pelekotan uses you."

This was not a comforting answer.

Mace recalled that the strict, literal translation of the word was "jungle-mind."

He discovered that he didn't really want to think about it. In his head, he kept hearing:...' have become the darkness in the jungle . . .

Jungle mind” - the literal translation of “pelekotan” - is not just a minor dialect difference; it is outright relevant to the plot of Shatterpoint. Mace Windu initially thinks little of the word, but as demonstrated in the above passage, he begins to consider its meaning and, as the plot progresses, uses it in replace of “the Force” when describing the Korunnai and Kar Vastor [8]. This literal interpretation of pelekotan is also outright used by The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia: “Surviving in the jungle, or tan pel’trokal, brought Vastor into a deep harmony with the wilds of Haruun Kal. During this time, he seemed to lose the ability speak with his mouth, trading his humanity to pelekotan in return for his survival. Does this seem like a standard Force-user walking around in a jungle to you? No. Clearly pelekotan is not just “the Force,” because after exchanging his humanity with it, Kar Vastor became irrevocably tied to the jungle itself. Coincidence? The quote blatantly notes that, as a result, his speech turned into “jungle noise.” The fact Kar Vastor outright speaks animal noises is indicative that he is literally, and not figuratively, the embodiment of the jungle. Moreover, Kar Vastor is able to instinctually manipulate the jungles of the Haruun Kal in a way that Mace Windu notes is “pelekotan’s dream” [9] All of this demonstrates that the “pelekotan” in question is, indeed, the “jungle mind,” not just an irrelevant and meaningless translation for “the Force.“

This is not a wild theory constructed by me either. Many Korunnai stories state that “a lor pelek was not a being at all, but was rather pelekotan incarnate: the avatar of the jungle-mind.” That sounds precisely like what I am saying about Kar Vastor: the lor pelek. As aforementioned, Mace Windu dismisses this as mere legend, but later comes to his senses and notes that, “[Kar Vastor] is less a man than he is an avatar of the jungle itself.” Overall, you will find that this argument is fully consistent with the lore, since it is ultimately me relaying what Shatterpoint says back to you. In contrast, you have never even read the book!

EXAMPLE TWO:

quote:
Source: Star Wars: Shatterpoint (2003)

Vastor's shields parted, and the jungle went silent . . . 

Still in the air, Mace sensed the flow of power that held Vastor's grip upon him; with a sigh, he allowed his center-Vastor's point of Force contact-to relax and ground Vastor's power back into the jungle around them . . . And that jungle came to life.

First, notice that the jungle goes silent when Kar Vastor prepares for combat. Is this hyperbolic? It may appear that way, but look at the next paragraph. Mace Windu specifically tracks the “flow of power” from the jungle to Kar Vastor himself, then reroutes Vastor’s power back into the jungle. This indicates the source of Kar Vastor’s power is the jungle. Taken in full, it appears Kar Vastor draws the energies from the surrounding environment, essentially freezing the wildlife. Then, when Mace Windu returns back the energy, the wildlife moves again. 

--- --- ---

quote:
Originally posted by The Ellimist

Hilariously out of context. Mace was explaining why he thought Vastor wasn’t evil like a Sith, saying that he doesn’t embrace darkness:

“his world” refers to his living circumstances, not some magical power of the jungle. Seriously, I have no idea where you got this idea from.

Kar Vastor does not “embrace darkness?” Are we talking about the same character here, since the only backstory to Kar Vastor’s character is that he gave himself fully to pelekotan for power - a total embrace of the darkness of the jungle! No where in the quote you provided has Mace Windu stating he never embraced the darkness either. That argument was conjured up in thin air. Regardless, here is Mace Windu stating the same exact point - ”Dark power flows into him and out again but it does not seem to touch him - again:

quote:
Source: Star Wars: Shatterpoint (2003)

I never saw this power in action; I never saw trees move, nor knots of vines unbind themselves. Instead I felt a continuous current in the Force: a rolling cycle like the breath of some vast creature alone in the dark. Power flowed into him and out again, but I did not feel him use it any more than I feel my muscles use the sugars that feed them.

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C. IS KAR VASTOR’S POWER DIFFICULT TO GAUGE?

Yes.

quote:
Originally posted by The Ellimist

Nonsense. That’s because Vastor is good at stealth and concealment (perhaps Force concealment too). Mace then confronts Vastor face-to-face and pretty explicitly quantifies his raw power to be Yoda-tier. So Windu gets a gauge of his power within a few hours of fighting him.


Because Kar Vastor is good at ”stealth and concealment,” he is near-undetectable to one of the most powerful Jedi Masters of all time? You might have had a case with Force concealment, but regretfully Kar Vastor never shows the ability. Rather, Mace Windu is explicit in why he cannot sense Kar Vastor: ”Even with the Force, I can't pick Kar out from the jungle around us. He is so much a part of it, and it of him. In other words, Kar Vastor’s power blends in with the jungle around him. That makes sense, because his power is the power of the jungle.

Your ”Your-tier” example is simply factually incorrect. Mace Windu never gauges Kar Vastor’s power by simply sensing him. Rather, Mace Windu prefaces the chapter by stating, ”It was earlier this evening that I learned the real truth of Kar Vastor. Not only who he is, and why he is - but what he means.” Then, Kar Vastor performs a highly impressive Force feat, from which Mace Windu concludes that his power is ”on the scale of Yoda” [10]. The fact that Mace Windu could not determine this by simply sensing Kar Vastor, and instead had to discover it in a grand revelation, makes it clear that Kar Vastor’s aura is nebulous. 

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D. IS NICK ROSTU A RELIABLE NARRATOR?

No.

quote:
Originally posted by The Ellimist

Here Nick correctly labels Kar, and elsewhere in the novel acts like a perfectly sane individual with no particular signs of memory loss.

Out of universe: it was an obvious typo and not some weird 4d chess way to question Nick’s sanity that doesn’t show up anywhere else in the novel. Vader >>> Kar Vastor is the obvious intent.

In-universe: Nick had a verbal slip, which we all have from time to time (I’ve accidentally called siblings parents, America Canada, etc.).

It is amusing you write that “Kar acts like a perfectly sane individual with no particular signs of memory loss elsewhere in the novel,” yet Nick Rostu calls Kar Vastor a “Balawai” in two other places as well: “Kar Vastor, leader of the Balawai resistance” and “It was as if the Balawai commander had been shrouded in darkness.” That is not a mere “verbal slip,” but rather a consistent error about arguably the most important aspect of the Summertime War. It is the equivalent of a Union soldier constantly thinking back to Abraham Lincoln as the Confederate leader. 

As for out-of-universe reasoning, Nick Rostu is constantly portrayed as bananas, so I have no clue what you are talking about. Also, stop trying to pull the “doesn’t show up anywhere else in the novel” card when we all know your total interaction with it was a quick “CTRL+F “Vastor” search. Anyway, is it possible that the author made three blatant errors that slipped past Lucasfilm Licensing? It certainly would not be the first time *cough* Drew Karphysyn * cough*, but your attempt at equating accidentally writing “Balawai” to calling your parents siblings makes no sense whatsoever. Moreover, if we assume that the author is simply in error, it demonstrates a total lack of reliability from the author about Kar Vastor. Besides, you have no grounds to speak about author intent. Half of this entire debate is you filtering in odd interpretations to otherwise basic feats and accolades. Tell me again how Darth Vader can pulverize continents and radically stomp Mace Windu?